"Don't Vote For El Sayed!" Former Bernie Sanders Jewish Staffer on The Michigan Senate Race

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Hello friends and welcome to Being Jewish, your home for deeply candid conversations on Jewish identity, culture, and current events

I'm your host Jonah Platt, and today we're continuing our march to the midterms with more election focused content through a Jewish lens

Last week, I shared my conversation with political outsider and California Republican gubernatorial candidate Steve Hilton

On the flip side, my guest today has worked just about every job you can possibly have inside the Democratic Party, Department of Energy, State, Capitol Hill, City Council, Foreign Affairs, the Obama administration, and as he discussed in his recent op-ed for the Free Press, Jewish outreach director for Bernie Sanders 2020 presidential campaign

But now he's pulling the fire alarm, trying to put out the anti-Jew flames erupting inside the Democratic Party tent he's devoted so much of his career to helping build

Is he just in time or will it be too little too late? Let's find out

Please welcome the author of Saving Democratic Foreign Policy and founding political director of J Street, Mr

Joel Rubin

>> Really, really excited to be with you and thank you for all that you're doing for the Jewish people

Oh, >> I appreciate that

>> That's great

>> So, you, as I said, worked on the Bernie campaign, former founder of of J Street

You're probably, at least in your beginnings, the furthest left politically of any guest I've had on the show, which is why it's so important that you are here today to talk about what we're here to talk about, which is our main focus is going to be the Michigan Senate race between Abdul Elsed and Mike Rogers where you have broken from this left wing of the party and come out against El Say

>> Why are you not supporting him? You know, look, he's uh positing a threat to American foreign policy

From my perspective, he is a danger to the Jewish community

He's advocating for positions that I believe are harmful to the Democratic party at large and and are anti-American

And I think as a Democrat, as somebody who's worked in these spaces for a number of years, uh we can't be having uh our representatives and our people in Congress uh not recognizing the value of the Jewish community in the Democratic party

And that's what's happening

That's what he he uh that's what he symbolizes and that's why I'm unhappy with his candidacy

>> Those are the sort of the headlines

Let's dig into those

So, you know, what about his positions or what he has said is from your point of view harmful towards the Jewish community here and harmful towards the American Democratic Party largely

>> A Middle East war broke out on my Twitter feed recently where he essentially said Israel is not an ally of the United States, >> right? He just said he said they're like, "No friend of ours

>> No friend of ours

We're not going to give them aid if they're in a war with Iran, for example

They're on their own

" And uh that's so counter not just to uh our values as Jews and as Democrats, but as the American people, we stand by our allies

We're not Donald Trump

I'm going to say that quite bluntly

What President Trump is doing on Ukraine really Yeah

It really turns the head and and uh it's completely undermining our alliances and our global standing

>> So as a Democrat, I want us to be firm with our allies

I want us to stand up for values like peace

And so I posted in in in in the the the in the Twitter I sort of a quote tweet on what he said

I said, you know, the Israel aid program is actually rooted in a peace treaty between Israel and Egypt

Earlier in my career, I was the civil servant at the State Department and I was the Egypt desk officer for a year and a half

So my job was to oversee our military aid program

You can't just turn away from commitments made to other countries that get them to peace because somehow you think it's a better soundbite

But that's what he's doing

It's an isolationist mindset

And then the the the the core concern that I have about where this heads is Jews in Michigan feel as if they are now at greater risk

uh his responses to the almost uh successful terrorist attack against the synagogue were so out of character of what we expect from our leaders and so completely counter to the idea that we have people running for office who care about their own citizens

Instead, he was explaining away and justifying and rationalizing the the uh the failed attack that for Jews in Michigan in particular to see this combination of a candidate consistently engaging in incitement against Israel and saying that they are not our ally paired with an inability to be humane towards the Jewish community at the moment when the the failed attack happened

I I feel like that's not the kind of people we need in the Democratic party representing us in Congress

>> If you would speak to the the Democrat Michigander who says, "Okay, maybe you're right, >> but I'm not going to vote for Mike Rogers

You know, I'm I'm pro-choice

I want, you know, better health care

I want all these things that seem to be aligned with the the the traditional Democratic party

I like everything else Elsad is saying

What's the big deal?" >> Yeah

I mean, this is where it gets really hard to be a Democrat uh and to be a Jewish a proud Jew in the Democratic party

But, you know, look, Jonah, we're in a fight right now

Um, make no mistake about it

There is a battle underway inside the party about the direction of our policy on Israel, uh, how Jews are included or not included

Part of why I wrote about it in the free press was I felt that Sarah Sanders and the team around him were were essentially injecting anti-semitic candidates into the primary process into the party and taking advantage of gerrymandered districts, very blue districts in this window to put people in who make the Jewish community less safe

But there's a fight and we have a variety of voices across the country also that are winning primaries that are in moderate districts that those moderate districts they want the moderate candidate

And what I say to people in Michigan is that you you have to participate in this fight

Part of it is the painful choice though

It's making a stand

You know, politics is about making sure that one is communicating exactly as a voter in particular what it is that you want that candidate to do in order to earn your vote

A Jewish voter should not be taken for granted

Historically, and you'll hear this a lot from Jewish Democratic organizations

Historically, Jews vote twothirds 75% for Democrats

It's always going to be that way

It's been that way

It's going to continue to be that way

But the question isn't whether or not Jews will vote for Democrats

The real question is, will Democrats support the Jews? And in that, when you look at polls, Jewish Democrats, Jewish voters overall feel as if the Democratic Party and the and the majority rate is not supporting us enough when it comes to countering anti-semitism

So, I fear that this election will be the last one where we'll see Jews voting for the Democrats and that we'll be a free Asian constituency in 2028

And so, the Sed candidacy, it's a real test

and Jewish voters in Michigan have a chance to make their mark and to say this is what we stand for and these are principles and these are principles that go beyond just one candidate in one election

>> So say more about that because I think that's an important piece

You know what what message does it send if Sad wins versus what message does it send if he loses? It's a real interesting question, right? Because you see right now AOC and and the progressive base are essentially saying if we win through SED in Michigan, that means look, we can win anywhere

The the the DSA line candidates are viable in the Midwest

I would argue that's a that's a that's a spin, but the reality is it's a blue seat currently

>> That it's incred it's an incredibly difficult race right now for Seattle

It should not be this hard or this close

uh the winds are very favorable towards Democrats

The the as you know like the second term mid mid midterm election always against the incumbent and then Trump is historically unpopular

We're talking about 30% and he's waging a tariff war that is directly affecting Michigan who's next to Canada

So >> it's kind of like a perfect storm of a win for anybody in that

So uh they'll argue that that's not accurate

Uh but what it does mean is that Jewish voters, we have to remember um that we have a vote and a voice, not just in Michigan, but around the country

And we have more than just our votes

We have our organizing capacity

We have our donation capacity

Uh we have allies as well

And so this is a test for Jewish voters to show that we are passionate about and care about the issues that we say we care about

you know, we can't just sort of go along and and and I know my Democratic friends and the partying folks will look at me and say, "Why are you saying this, Joel? You're going to hurt us in in in in Michigan

" Say, "Look, no constituency should be taken for granted

No constituency should be ignored

We're not bringing up issues that are somehow just over the last couple of weeks, this has been multiple years building

Uh, and it needs to be a wake-up call

" So that's where the Jewish voters in Michigan can make a point

And um you know I I I have to say there's a bit of an irony here because say remember was part of the uncommitted movement that tried to make a point about Kla Harris and undermined her ability to win the White House which I would argue is a much more significant uh race than one seat in the United States Senate

>> You've said a couple times now that say or other candidates would quote make Jews less safe

Yeah

Can you be specific? What do you mean like what what is he doing or what do these other candidates do that concretely makes Jews less safe? >> Couple things

First and foremost, let's just put the the the hardest issue up front

Uh anti-Zionism I do believe is a form of anti-semitism

And there's been a big debate going on in the Jewish world and in the political world about well you can criticize the state of Israel that's okay that's not anti-semitic

I agree

Right

Like there are Israelis who criticize the Israeli government, right? Criticize state, but more like criticize their politicians

>> What we're seeing right now is language that denies Jews the right to decide for ourselves what we view as anti-semitic

That we are now being gaslit and told by multiple politicians that we don't have agency over language and actions that directly affect us because of who we are

So that is dangerous and we don't see these politicians speaking out against it

>> They'll say, "Hey, I support, you know, Jewish safety

I like Mam Dani, I just gave more money to Jewish safety

" At the same time, when he unleashes a plan to combat anti-semitism that a major coalition of Jewish groups in the city said, "This doesn't do anything for us

" And by the way, you're engaged in consistent anti-semitic incitement by continually targeting the Jewish state again and again and again and again

And so for me, um, Jewish Americans, you know, we've been here, my family's been here since like 1903, right? Like we've been here four or five generations

Yeah

>> We are foundation constituency of the Democratic Party

We're a foundation community in this country

I grew up in Squirrel Hill in Pittsburgh

You know, we had a terror attack there years ago

Tree of Life

It killed 11 people

My parents were there uh the night before at Shabbat services

My three girls were baby named at that institution

So, it's personal and I always felt that that that like as Democrats and progressives, we got it right

Like we're going to stand up against anti-semitism

We're not going to put in any way, shape, or form people who flirt with Jew hatred

And then Bernie supported Graham Platner >> with his Nazi tattoo

Bernie and and many others >> and many others and they kept on pushing him and if not for the fact that the guy was so incredibly fatally flawed, he would be the nominee right now and probably win that race

>> Um, that means Jews are being force-fed candidates that don't make us more safe

>> That's a perfect segue

Let's transition over to the Bernie Platner situation, especially to either less informed Jewish constituents and certainly to non-Jewish constituents

There's a disconnect where they go, well, Bernie Sanders is Jewish, so everything he does is fine for Jews and he can't do anything wrong for Jew and this, you know, this is writ large sort of in the public square

So I think talk about you know what you saw within that organization

How someone is not you know immune from taking actions that can be harmful to Jews even if they themselves happen to be by an accident of birth born Jewish

>> Well you know Jonah it's it's um it's a conversation I have all the time and I've even had it in green rooms when I'll go on TV

I'll go to CNN hit and before that I'll talk to a reporter who says, "Oh yeah, a very prominent one said to me, oh yeah, you know, Bernie's Jewish, so I always thought that whatever he was saying is just going to be fine

" >> Right? >> Jewashing, right? Now, I don't think that's his direct intent, per se, right? >> And interestingly, you know, Sarah Sanders, you know, Bernie, he his instincts after October 7th were good

his in he made statements condemning it but then this tornado of pressure and anger came at him from the base from the DSA left from the hard left and he flipped on a dime

>> Yeah

>> And so in many ways Bernie is a follower not a leader >> especially on this issue

>> Uh this has given him agency to say I'm a progressive and a progressive leader

the roots go back um to like 2016 2015 16 when he was debating Hillary Clinton in the primary and talked about Palestinian statethood and that kind of got a lot of excitement going

Uh he never cared about this when I was at J Street at the beginning

This was not his issue

He didn't want to talk about it

He's got another vision

It's the movement

It's economic justice

It's the sort of broad domestic agenda

That's what he wants

He didn't want to talk about these things

Um, but you know, he has decided that he's going to lean in hard

He's now leading on practically every Senate resolution or bill piece of legislation that goes after Israel

He's the leading voice and it does do that

And I've talked to members of Congress about this who've called me

Um, several called me and said, "I don't understand your free press article

" You know, like you sound like a Republican

That's what Republicans say

Like, explain it to me

And my argument is like, well, you know, if you don't believe the state of Israel should exist, that's a red line and you're engaging in anti-semitism

And [laughter] it's like the response is nervous and I got to move fast because they understand the base doesn't want them to say things like that

And so that's where Bernie comes in

And and you know, it's a real tragedy because here's a a a leading Jewish American, someone who grew up in the shadow of the Holocaust, who did spend time on a kibitzu when he was younger, who has the um the depth of understanding of what it means to be Jewish and the vulnerabilities that we experience

And it's a real tragedy, I believe, for the American Jewish community to have a leader like that not speak out forcefully and push back on the hate that's coming up from within the party

Um, I got to say, you know, when I speak out now, I have a lot of people saying thank you privately because they're so upset and they feel so vulnerable and they feel as if where they've been coming from, what they've been fighting for is not working

Um, my goal is to keep a healthy American democracy, one that's safe for Jews, one that has strong alliances in the world

You don't do that if a political party, for example, kicks out the Jews

That's what happened in England, the Labor Party that kicked out the Jews, Corbinism

>> We can't do that

And so Bernie needs to kind of shift and that's in many ways why I wrote my piece and and um I just don't see it shifting right now

>> Yeah

So that I mean that brings me to my next question which is are you are you a lone whistleblower here or do you feel like >> I know you mentioned some people reaching out to you after this article

Are there are there people like you who are working within the system going, "Yeah, I'm seeing this too

" or oh, I had no idea

This is terrible

Or or are you, you know, are you are you screaming into the void? >> Yes

And yes

[laughter] >> Um the game's not over yet

>> Sure

>> There are a lot of people who engage me who I know are in this fight, in this battle

They're talking to senior people

Uh the DNC just created a Jewish council trying to figure out different ways to engage

that was led by party chairs who are Jewish um you know uh from across the country who understand there's a problem that doesn't mean we're going to get the magic bullet and fix it but we know we have a problem and this is early enough to fix it but it is going to take people speaking out and I felt you know you said even who you know if not if not now when and you know I mean I know it sound I don't mean to sound martyrish on this but like if someone with my bio isn't going to speak out then who's going to speak out and if I can flip it a different Okay, this is a chance for me to explain in as clear terms as I possibly can because of my bio, my credibility from that about the concerns I have

Um, I'm a progressive and I want Jews to be part of the experience of what it means to be progressive

I don't want Jews to be kicked out because, for example, we care about Israel and be told, "You are no longer allowed here in the progressive world

" And there are a lot of Jews who are coming up to that line and are very worried that they're going to get iced out of the Democratic party and that just can't happen

>> Let's let's dig into that a little bit

At at what point and this is really a personal question, you know, at what point is it >> Yeah

>> like don't ice me out? >> And at what and when does that flip into, hey, screw you guys, I'm out of here? >> My Republican friends ask me that all the time

Why don't you join us? And I say, well, what what are you offering me? [laughter] you know, is is that like a safe harbor, you know? >> I mean, I know I know personally for myself, I I'll I'll start the the flow here

Like, I definitely feel like I'm in a sort of race by race, person by person sort of situation at this point out of necessity

I don't think I I have the luxury to just sort of go down ballot on on Democrats

I certainly don't agree with certain parts of the Republican platform

I would never identify as one, but actually I spoke about with Steve Hilton on the show a week ago and he he was like, "You don't need to be a Republican to vote for a Republican

" Um, you know, and that's sort of where I'm at in terms of, you know, having to look at each race on the merits

You know, if it was if it was a a Haley Stevens instead of an Abdul El Say, you know, Mike Rogers, see you later

I wouldn't even think twice about it, you know

Right

>> Well, number one growing political party in America is the independent political party

I think we Jews are sort of leading the way in that

Uh I I do believe Jews clearly want to be Democrats in poll after poll, but are feeling like Democrats may not want us

But again, I'll argue, you know, the fight is still underway

But to your question, to answer it, um >> Republicans on these issues, I will give them credit

They have been very sensitive and self-aware

Um, they have real problems

There are a lot of voices like Tucker Carlson who >> one, two, three, I hate the Jews

Like that's just his mantra

Um, so there's a problem there big time

And the white supremacist murderer in my tree of life, you know, synagogue there obviously leaned to the right

>> Yeah

White nationalism not going anywhere

>> Yeah

Exactly

But the Republicans have not given all the answers

But empathy goes a long way

>> And I said this earlier, I'll say it again

Uh we are going to be a floating constituency, a free agent constituency in 2028

And that is not good for a Democratic party because last I checked, you win elections by addition, not subtraction

>> Yeah

>> And Jews are Democrats

So you start subtracting the Jews

What are you going to make them up with? What who's going to come and replace us? >> It's funny

Usually I hear people being worried that we Jews are going to replace them

[laughter] a little Charlottesville rhyme in there

>> And you know what pains me on this, Jonah? What really pains me on this is, you know, I when I was at J Street at its founding in 2008, I had been a a Senate staffer on foreign policy to a Jewish senator

And I had moved from that job to J Street

And I chose to go down the road of J Street because I believe we need to have Middle East peace

We needed to have an active American policy towards promoting diplomacy to get a Palestinian state ultimately and support the Israelis and getting there

[snorts] And that seems to all be getting lost in all of this, right? Like why is it now that we have people arguing that Israel should disappear? What what are what are they proposing to resolve this conflict? Why are they essentially engaged in when they say anti-ionist or one state engaged in a permanent uh a a a ad a ad a ad a ad a ad a ad a ad a ad a ad a ad a advocacy for permanent fighting and permanent war you know the best outcome ultimately is to states we have to keep pushing forward for this which is is why I'm so alarmed by the kinds of people that are being shoved into the party right now in this process because I don't hear language like that >> right I don't hear say here's what I'll do to promote peace

He's saying, "Yeah, I'll live with whatever they come up with, but in the meantime, let's cut American relations with Israel

" Talk to any national security expert has worked on this

The best way to lose influence in Israel is to cut off Israel

That's insane

I know Israel is not a perfect ally

France isn't a perfect ally

>> We're not a perfect ally to our allies

>> We're not We don't have like perfect governance either, but they're not an enemy

Yeah

And there's this sort of like weird thing like, well, Iran's not an enemy

He say couldn't figure it out

No, Israel is an imperfect ally, but they also are an ally

They also do support us in our war against Iran

Even if you don't like the war in Iran, I don't like the war in Iran

But you know what? The Israelis decided to come in and support

The only thing that American Jews need to make sure we do is to not give up hope

is to keep on pushing forward recognizing how complicated all these different you've laid it all out perfectly

We've got internal battles in the party

We've got Republican battles

You've got a hard rate Israeli government

We've got the Israeli population is deeply cynical

All of that still is beside the point

You know, if we had thought we could fail or we would fail and and like those kinds of leaders were installed in the 20s and 30s in America, you and I would not be sitting here right now

The Jewish institutions that gave us so much such a seat at the table in American society were built by people who were facing a calamity in Europe and the Holocaust

In the rearview mirror, they had the pilgrims and they had massive anti-semmites here in the United States and they built Jewish institutions for a better future and they did achieve it

>> Yeah

>> We have to think like that

We have to remember that our uh our ancestors had harder days than we did

Mhm

>> I I just say one more thing

Do you mind if I show the picture? Yeah, please

So, like my grandmother who passed away a couple of years ago

Um here she is, Yetta Elanoff

This will make my mother happy

And my great-grandfather um uh Sam Heyman, meeting with David Bengurion, the first prime minister of Israel, and cousin Neries from Israel

So, my great-grandmother, my grandmother, I'm sorry, when she passed away, uh, I I gave some words and I said, you know, imagine what it would have been like for her in like 1946

So, her husband just came back from service in World War II

Her daughter, my mother, was like two or three years old

The Holocaust had just happened

There was no state of Israel

>> Yeah

>> And you know what she and her generation did? They pulled it together and they built all that and they made a very successful run for us here in America

So that's keeping the light on

She didn't give up

She didn't turn away

She didn't attack what it means to be Jewish

She didn't say we're horrible people and we should just disappear

She said, "No, we're going to fight for us as a people

We're proud Americans and we're going to try to build a better world after all this calamity

" And so that's where I hope we go uh for us as American Jews

>> What a perfect message to end on

Joel, thank you so much

I appreciate you coming in

>> Appreciate [music] it, man

>> You can catch Joel on just about every cable network with a Chiron and subscribe to his weekly briefing book at joel rubin

substack

com

If you got something out of this one, send it to the Democrat or Michigander in your life, Jewish or not, these are the conversations that matter

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I'll see y'all right back here for the next fire episode of Being Jewish with me, Jonah Platt