The TRUTH about Independent News, Jewish Journalists MoNews & Punchbowl News LIVE from Washington DC

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From the Edlavitch DC JCC in Washington, DC, a Capital J program, this is Being Jewish Live

Hello

Hello, Washington, DC

Hello, hello, hello

All right

Thank you all

Thank you so much for being here

It is so great to see you

It is awesome that this show could happen

I, I am just thrilled to be here with all of you for a very special live episode of Being Jewish with Jonah Platt from the DC Edlavitch JCC

This is really exciting

Our top story tonight, independent news unfiltered

Joining me on stage in a moment are two successful news media entrepreneurs who both began their careers as undergrads and frat brothers at nearby George Washington University, where they both served as editors of legendary school paper, The Hatchet

One earned his stripes at Politico, the other at CBS News, and they've both built independent community-focused news platforms producing content across every imaginable digital platform

One's a New York Times bestselling author

The other is an Emmy winner

I mean, are you guys excited to see these two or what? They're both dads

They're both Jews, though one is Ashkenazi, the other Sephardic

I'll let you guess which one is which

Most importantly, one's married to his head of digital strategy, and the other's married to my cousin

Let's get 'em out here

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome founder of Mo News, Moshe Wanunu, and co-founder of Punchbowl News, Jake Sherman

Perfect

Welcome

Welcome, gentlemen

Good intro

Yeah

You know, I take great pride in my introductions

That was amazing

Thank you

Thank you guys for being here

I've, I've been trying to put this show together for a while

I, once I realized these two were friends and had all these different things in common, I wanted to make a, a thing of it, and I appreciate you guys being here to, to do the thing

So you both left major news organizations to make startups and do your own thing

Wanna begin by asking both of you why? You know, what did you see that was missing from your life from the organizations you worked for and felt needed doing in the space? And, and Mo, we can start with you

I didn't leave CBS intending to do my own thing

Right

I sort of came into it by accident

So I, I'd spent about 15 years, I'd started my career

I… GW alum, I know there's some GW folks here, right? In the- We heard them earlier

Oh, loud

Okay, nice

Hometown crowd

Yes

And, uh, began my first job still a student at GW

I was interning at Fox News Channel over on Capitol Hill

Chris Wallace hires me as his researcher

Spent a number of years there

Went up to New York for Bloomberg Television

Spent a decade at CBS News, and then, uh, left right before the pandemic, and was sort of like figuring out what I wanna do next

I was like, "I gotta get out of the daily news thing

" It's like too much

It's a, it's a lifestyle, it's not a job, right? And then lo and behold, the pandemic happens, and my friends and family are like, "You're the news guy, what the hell is happening?" And so Twitter to me is a nasty place

I'm gonna post on Instagram to a few hundred friends and family

The few hundred friends and family become 1,000, become 10,000, become 50,000, to which my now wife, then girlfriend at the time, is like, "This is a thing that you need to figure out

" And so suddenly I'm like, "How do I create a business out of my Instagram following as a news person on Instagram?" And gradually we have figured it out over time

Uh, and so I sort of got into this whole independent media thing by accident

I never planned to go back

Really, never at all? It depends how many zeros they offer

Yeah

To sort of bring it back to the initial, and then we'll kick it to Jake, like w- what do you think it is that you're doing there that, like what service are you providing that I, I couldn't already find on Instagram? What's special and, and different that you were trying to fill differently? Think about it in a, a couple ways

I mean, first of all, now Instagram 2026 is very different from Instagram 2020

So I had the good fortune of doing something on Instagram at a time when it was still a place to share pictures of your pets and your brunch, right? Mm

And then 2020 was really the year Instagram got serious

As, you know, like the pandemic, BLM- Uh, through January 6th, Instagram suddenly becomes like, we talk about real issues on Instagram

But also just being a place where people already are and bringing them something that is useful

Mm

Right? Having a dialogue with your news person

We used to call ourselves like a news concierge

Like, "What do you wanna know about today? Let's dig into that for you

" That's something that I never did at CBS or Fox

And so being able to have a relationship with your reporter, uh, being able to have their questions answered, having that transparency, but also giving you a side of, like, my personal life, and so doing something that is very different from what you get on CNN

All right, Jake

You, you started, or at least certainly came up through Politico- Right and then went out and, and did your own thing with your partner, Anna Palmer

What, what did you see that you felt you could be doing differently or, or wasn't in the space that you wanted to attack? Yeah, well, I'll, I'll say I think large news companies are broken, uh, irreparably broken

Um, I think Moshe would agree with me on that

Um, I think they're too big to manage

I think they are unwieldy

I think that people have too much of everything, to be honest with you

And, um, we thought, I was at Politico for 11 years, 2009 to 2020

At the end of the pandemic, or really the end of 2020, which was not the end of the pandemic, I said to Anna, who was my writing partner for a long time, we wrote a book together, um, we wrote Politico Playbook together

I said, "Why don't we just do this on our own?" And what Moshe's saying is right

I mean, people want an intimacy with your audience

I think that's incredibly important in news, and actually you see a lot of the big networks and big news organizations trying to develop that

Um, so there were four of us

We started Punchbowl News, and we just said, "We're gonna do this on our own

We're gonna create content and news for Capitol Hill, and, uh, Capitol Hill only

And if Anna's mother in North Dakota," this is our saying, "wants to come along, then great

But we're never gonna write for Anna's mother in North Dakota

We're gonna write for, um, Capitol Hill

" W- we've grown considerably since then

We started with four, now we're 55, so it's a little bit a challenge to maintain that intimacy with your audience as we've grown and grown and grown

Uh- Was that focus on we're, we're speaking to Capitol Hill markedly different from what Politico was doing? Yes, I think so

Um, Politico got into a lot of different areas and kind of let their backyard become, uh, uh, unoccupied, and we marched right in and said, "We're here for you

" And listen, people see us every day on Capitol Hill

I'm in the Capitol every day

That's very important, I think, to our brand

It's owned by me and Anna, and, uh, a co- I mean, m- the vast majority of the company is

I, I think it's strange, but people identify with that

Is there anything you miss about being part of- No lar- nothing

Zero

Zero

Re- r- you don't miss anything? Zero, no

I think most people would agree that trust in news media right now is in the toilet

Um, why do you think your audiences trust you? And who do you trust? Jake, why don't you take it? So, uh, the answer's gonna be different for both of us, I think

I get some version of this question a lot, and I'll, I'll say this

I don't speak for the news media at large

I don't defend the news media at large

I think the news media has a lot of issues

My job every day is to get Republicans and Democrats to leak to me in equal measure

If I don't do that, I'm out of business

So I have no incentive to, to do, to put any spin on the ball

Like, I hate everybody the, the same

Um, no matter what, no matter what party you're in

I have to go talk to people every single day, to the Speaker of the House, to members of Congress

Every day I'm up there talking to people

It's my job to take that information, distill it, and kinda make heads or tails of it

I have to trust my instinct

I have to trust them

I have to, uh, you know, and I try to teach my reporters this, like, you're allowed to have opinions on a variety of matters

J- I mean, we all come from somewhere, right? Where I, I w- I'm a Jew from the East Coast, educated on the East Coast, right? Like, these are things that you can't take away from me

S- but it's your job to do your job even with those things in your, you know, with those things in your background, and do, do it fairly

You might have different opinions about abortion or, you know, whatever the issue is

So I tell our reporters that all the time, that they have to do their job fairly, no matter what they believe

I think that transparency and acknowledgement is super important

I, uh, did an appearance a few years ago when Don Lemon was still hosting the CNN Morning show, where, um, we sort of got into it 'cause he was like, "You know, it's all Trump's fault that people don't trust the media

" It's like, it's not all Trump's fault that people don't trust the media

You know, I think Jake makes a good point

Like, we all have our own biases

No one can claim to be unbiased

Some people like to be like, "I like Mo News, you're unbiased

" I'm like, "I'm not unbiased

" Like, I have my biases based on my, my gender, my religion, my, you know, origin, all of that

But how do I check those at the door and make sure that we're being, uh, as fair as possible? Now, as far as building trust with the audience, I think having a face and being an individual is super important

Talking to people conversationally, that's been one of our goals

You know, our tagline on our daily podcast is that, like, we read the news so you don't have to

We try to read between the lines so you don't have to

And so I'm literally going through all the news sources

I'm like, this is an interesting thing from Reuters

This is something you can trust from Axios

Literally, uh, this reporter has never traveled to the region before

So, you know, like, I, I try to use the way I read the media and bring that to people, and so I think that engenders some trust

I think also it's super important to acknowledge when we make mistakes

So I think that acknowledgement, like being out there with it, some media would be reluctant to do that

A lot of creators on Instagram, like, might delete something and you never hear about them

Like that, like, I will actually raise it to people who might not even been aware of the post, being like, "FYI

" You know, like, I think that's super important

I think having that conversation after the fact, like, "How do you think we covered this?" Um, putting up messages from people that I get that either are praise, but like, "Hey, I didn't like where you went with this," or, "I'm correcting you on this item or that item," I think that engenders trust

But, you know, when you look at it globally, it's super interesting

Pew or Gallup does this, uh, annual survey of, like, the most developed countries in the world and trust in media, and they put it out last week, and we've been in, like, dead last among 40 developed countries

Like literally compared to like England, Germany, France, et cetera

Dead last

Though weirdly enough, the number went slightly up last year, and it was like Republicans went from 8% trust in mass media back to 22%

They don't understand why, and I don't know how they figured that out

But still at 22%, that still means eight out of 10 Republicans don't trust the media, and liberals are down to like seven out of 10

Uh, but you look at like where we were, and the peak trust in mass media was 1974

Watergate, right? Right

The Washington Post

Woodward and Bernstein

That was peak trust, and it's been like that for 50 years

So there are a lot of factors you can look at when it comes to why and how we got here

Um, and you know, I think one of the big questions we have, and I think would, you know, to be written is, like will AI help us with this or make things even worse? Well, we can get there maybe if we have time, but what I wanna jump on is that talking about, uh, sort of Jake, what you were saying

I- you know, you train your reporters to be fair

Does fair mean neutral in terms of their, who they bring as a human being? Or is there a different definition that you're using there? It's a really good question

Um, most of the time it means neutral

I'll give you an example

I was traveling last week with, um, with Jim Jordan, the House Rep- the Republican congressman from Ohio, in, uh, Georgia

And a guy introduced him at a fundraiser and said something along the lines of, "You know, we can trust Jim Jordan

He stood up and voted against certifying the election in 2020, and he's been proven right

" And I was like I st- I was like… I was texting my colleagues

I was like, "I'm not sure how he's been proven right

" But like January 6th was the third day of Punchbowl News's existence

Wow

Um, there's no need to be neutral on that, right? W- there's no need to be neutral

It was a group of people who were pushed by Donald Trump to steal the election, right? Like that's just what it was

We don't give much credence to the other side that says, "No, it was just like a random tourist event

" Like that's not something we're interested in being neutral about

The truth is somewhere in between, right? You're, you know, there's waste, fraud, and abuse in government

I think we could all concede that

Republicans say it's X, Democrats say it's Y

There's a lot more neutrality that's needed and, and, and I would say nuance that's needed in that discussion

You know, the show is called Being Jewish, so let's, let's go down this path a little bit

We're pro- we're pros in that, Moshe

Yeah

Do Jewish journalists have a responsibility to cover Jewish stories? You know, it's so interesting 'cause having been in newsrooms, uh, by the way, you know, there's newsrooms with many Jews in them according to conspiracy theories and reality

We don't have a conference line or an email

That actually would be super useful if we could all be in touch

Right? Like, don't you wish we actually were all in touch? What they think, what they think we do, we actually, we've never actually come up with

It's so interesting because oftentimes you will see members of other minority groups cover issues that are sensitive to their world

But in many cases, I have seen, like, Jews being like, "Oh, I don't wanna touch that one

I don't wanna touch Israel

" One of the challenges we have, and we can get into this, right, whether it's coverage of Israel or other topics, is that, like We still are like 1% of America, and despite, you know, various assumptions, we're still minorities in most newsrooms

I think we're 2 or 3%

Oh, we're 2%, is it? Uh, yeah, something like that

And, and, and one of the issues we have is that, you know, I'm often… I remember I grew up in this little place called Morton Grove, Illinois

And until I moved out to the more Jewish suburbs of Chicago, I was like the only Jew in class

So I was like explaining to the other kids, like what Hanukkah was in second grade and, and whatever

And in some cases, like fast-forward many years to the CBS newsroom, and I'm explaining that a conservative Jew isn't a conservative Jew politically

I have to worry about that every time I say it, like in audio

Conservative Jew, right? Conservative Jew

Conservative, like what are they gonna think? So, uh, they vote Republican

No, they don't vote Republican

It's a different type of conservative, folks

There is a learning curve, and we, like, you know, depending on your Jewish upbringing and your background, uh, I mean, certainly some Jews who don't know that much about Judaism and whatever, like some of us may know a lot, and we can contribute a lot

And so, like I'm the first to raise my hand to go to Pittsburgh when the shooting happens and, you know, like stories like that

'Cause like I can explain with nuance and, you know, uh, my former colleague and friend, Bianna Golodryga, did an incredible job there

And so I think, you know, we do have a responsibility in newsrooms to raise our hands and say, "You know, I know stuff about that

Uh, I can guard against biases

" And, you know, we don't ask the Latino reporter, like if they, like they feel okay covering the border, right? Like you go, and you have expertise on that

And the same thing, you know, around any issue, whether your gender or your demographic

But then, y- I, I do feel like there are times where it's like, well, can the Jew cover Israel fairly? Yeah

Uh, is a question that's asked that I feel like is, is not fairly asked of, of other groups

I had the position for the beginning of my career, um, that I was gonna just stay away from covering domestic politics, American domestic politics, uh, around Israel

Mostly just because I just didn't want the headache of dealing with it, and I didn't wanna have to deal with the, um, you know, the criticism, the hatred, and God, uh, it's gotten much worse now

As a Jewish newsman, you didn't want to? Yes

Yeah

Yeah

Yeah

Um, now I, I don't have that problem

I, I interviewed Netanyahu a couple years ago when I was in Israel

I've traveled with, uh, two Speakers of the House to Israel before, so I've kind of, uh, let that go

Israel was truly a bipartisan issue in 2009, 2010

And now, I mean, I've, I, I've, I've told this to people in the Israeli government, I mean, they would be lucky to get a majority no matter who's in charge, uh, in a, on a lot of, uh, uh, in a lot of instances

So it's a little bit different 'cause we're not out there covering, you know, um, synagogue shootings or things like that

It's a little bit different when you're at a big newsroom

Um, but this issue is difficult for anybody to avoid now

How proactive are you each in trying to… And I don't mean manipulate, but I mean like shape narrative in terms of choosing like what story or angle to spotlight when it comes to- Israeli and, and Jewish issues

When it comes to, you know, covering anything, I think I take the same perspective

I'm trying to not necessarily kind of oversimplify or dumb things down, but, like, try to make things approachable and understandable and bring context

So when it comes to whatever topic I'm covering, whether it has to do with Jews in Israel or not, it's like, okay, what are the top lines you need to understand? What is the historical context you need to understand? But when it comes to topics around Jews in Israel, it's like happen to, you know, know a lot about the matter

That's where I feel like I can provide a level of depth and context going back decades or millennia, um, that will help, uh, people understand things

You know, I think part of the understanding or part of the difficulty people have when it comes to any, you know, news story around, you know, Jews, especially right now, right? Which is how can a group of people who appear to be so powerful also be vulnerable, right? I think unless you're a Jew, you don't understand that, right? And that's where I try to provide that extra insight and perspective, um, around those topics, given my personal knowledge of those matters, because the majority of my audience is not Jewish

Uh, in some cases, I get notes on Instagram being like, "You're the only Jew I know

" And they don't even know you

And they don't know about me

They think it's this personal thing

About, about 75% of the world will never meet a Jew, has never met a Jew

I mean, it- Joe Rogan, biggest podcast in the world, I think he said he thought there were 100 million Jews

Like pe- pe- s- uh, people, the Jewish community, and I have found this, you know, I speak to Jewish communities all over the country, vastly overestimates what anybody knows about us at all

It's mostly nothing

Yeah

The more we can demystify things, the more I can provide perspective around things, and I'm not even trying to shape the narrative

I'm just trying to give, uh, insight in a world that doesn't understand the first thing about it

Well, so let me give you an example like- I, I hate to bring him up 'cause he sucks, but like the Macklemore thing, for instance, right? Like, there's different ways that one could frame that story and explain it

Some, you know, so like how would you approach something like that in terms of what do I want my audience to actually glean and, and understand about this? Well, I mean, once you figure out the facts at hand, I think it's important for people to understand that, like, just as much as Macklemore has a right to say his piece, Robert Kraft has a right to say his piece, right? You know? He owns the stadium- He- … so he really has a right to say his piece

Yeah

And then you saw Zach Bryan over the weekend, like, make his statement- Yeah … with his Free Palestine shirt at Gillette Stadium

But then again, it's not, you know, it's apples and oranges in terms of Zach Bryan versus Macklemore and, and how they approach the shows, right? And so I think that, uh, you know, w- when you approach that story, once you get your basic facts, I think, I, you know, explaining… It's not even a Jewish thing there

It's, like, explaining how free speech works

That, like, it's the government's role when it comes to free speech, but, like, Kraft can do what he wants with the stadium

Macklemore can do what do… And by the way, it's crushing for Macklemore

Look at him

He's got- Right … his sold-out tour in Europe now, and, you know, he's doing his own thing

Uh, and you know, I think, uh, trying to explain… You know, I, we find ourselves a lot of times as Jews right now, like, being told how we should feel about our own faith and what our views should be, right? Like, you shouldn't be offended by that

Who are you to tell me, you know, w- how, how I feel about that? Yeah

Uh, we're sort of unique in that way, in an unfortunate way

And so, you know, I think at the end of the day, in this very bifurcated media world that we live in, like, for my audience, I will do the best job of trying to tell that story, and again, try to keep it as a conversation, which is like, what do you wanna know? What are the questions you have about it? Jake, I wanna go back to talking about The Hill and, and the attitudes that have been changing

I think something, I mean, I, I can speak to this personally, what is frustrating to me is looking at politicians and other news media who we expect to sort of be the most informed and the most on top of this stuff, oftentimes, especially on this specific issue, you know, literally not dealing with Hard facts and reality, and picking up the same sort of narratives that, you know, your random friend is picking up off of social media

H- how much do you see that in your interactions? How much of that is genuine, like they are picking up talking points off the internet, and how much is appealing to voters? Let me, let me demystify this a little bit

Most members of Congress know very little

And I'm not talking about Israel, I'm not talking about- In general

Yeah

There's, there's only, there's so many things to know, they can only know so much, and there's- Well, but you're- Not a lot of things going on … giving them a little bit too much credit

I mean, I've had a lot of members of Congress, younger members of Congress say to me, "Yeah, I read this on Instagram," or, "I saw someone riffing about this on…" Or, "I looked it up on ChatGPT

" Or there was an instance a couple months ago on a very technical matter about the House floor about a rule that a member of Congress said to me, "But I'm telling you, I saw this on Chat- " I'm like, "I understand

You're wrong, and I, I've seen…" You know, so, you know, and remember, even the best members of Congress have to know a little bit about a thousand different things- Right at all times, you know what I mean? I see that an alarming amount, and these are people that really should have… I mean, they could get any expert to talk to them about anything

They have an entire think tank that exists, the, uh, CRS, the Congressional Research Service, to provide them, like, hard facts on any topic on planet Earth, like at, within 24 hours

It- it's scary

I mean, it's scary that these are the people that are running our, our country

I mean, you saw our, um, some of my friends at Axios last week or two weeks ago, I'm sure you saw this, Josh

They went around and asked some of the older members of Congress, and there are a lot of them, um, uh, h- have you ever used any large language model, ChatGPT, uh, Claude, Grok, anything? And they're just like, "No

" Wow

You know? Like, and they're… Uh, we saw this with Facebook when, in the early days of social media, like they were trying to regulate social media or hold hearings on social media, and none of them knew anything about it

So on the topic of Israel specifically, there are probably, I don't know, I'm gonna make this number up, but this is probably… You know, there's several dozen who are just very steeped in the issue, who are traveling to the region a lot- Right … who are going there, who are on the committees of jurisdiction, who talk to experts

The rest of them are just kinda going with the wind and literally going off of what people see on, on Instagram and things like that

Which by the way, makes kind of the podcast ecosystem even more dangerous in my estimation

Say more on that

Well, just because there are podcasters who are, um, working off of a different set, a different set of facts perhaps, um, than, than others

And Like, like the one who was defending Hitler in World War II- Right this weekend? Right

I just was watching that in the, uh, in the car on the way over

Is- Um, uh, it was- Tucker Carlson

Right

Yeah

Yeah

So, it's a little, a little bit of a- I'll let, I'll let you get the death threat

Yeah

It's a little bit of a, of a null curriculum thing, right? It's like they're not getting it from the CRS, so they're gonna, that means go learn it somewhere else

So I'm gonna learn it from this podcaster

Right

And they're like, "Well, he has millions of view…" You know, some people say- Right … "Well, he has millions of views

" Like, I don't know, so great

That must, that must be legitimate

So does this stupid, like, dog dancing video, you know? Right

Exactly

Are you feeling that same sort of vibe shift on, on Israel within your industry, within your, your, your colleagues in journalism? I'll tell you that when I was there running the evening news at CBS, and I had, like, the London Bureau and we were covering whatever it was, the, um, the move of the, uh, embassy, the US Embassy to Jerusalem

And we had a interview with Bibi and some other stuff

Like, there was already built in, like a decade ago, among, like, our London Bureau, like a, uh, you know, uh, a dislike for Bibi, the Israeli government, skepticism of anything Israel says

Um, and you know, I'd even get like snar- like snide remarks when, like, we did a story

And, like, at Evening News, which I don't… Does anybody here still watch a 6:30 new- broadcast on one of the three channels? We have a couple

Yeah

Oh, yeah, we got some hands

We got a few hands

Yeah

We got a few hands

The median age of a, a network news viewer is 69 these days, everybody

Half is over the 69, half is younger

And, uh, we're doing a story, we got, it's 30 minutes, once you take out commercials, it's 20 minutes

Every story can go about, if you're generous, if I'm very generous, I'm giving you two minutes for the story to tell you the Middle East

Typically, I'm giving you 90 seconds

Sometimes it's a minute 15, keep it tight

You know, I was like, "Okay, let's, you know, let's, let's give an extra 10 seconds to Netanyahu's explanation on whatever

" They're like, "Oh, you're giving your buddy Netanyahu more time

" And I'm like, "My buddy? Guys, like, the piece is, like, the entire thing is Gaza

The Israelis have, like, 10 seconds at the end to say their piece

I'm giving them 20 seconds

" But, like, I already hear- you know, like, that was already there

Yeah, yeah

Now, the interesting trend line I saw, and that can speak to what you see a little bit, is generational among journalists

I think- A newer group coming in, and you, you know, you're a Columbia alum, and maybe can speak to this more, but, like, increasingly I'm seeing, especially sort of Gen Z journalists coming in, this feeling, and I hear it from journalism professors at some of these major schools, that, uh, this idea that, like, you know, Jake tries to train his journalists and I try to train my journalists on, which is, like, I don't care about your opinion

Your p- your goal is to just get to the facts

Doesn't ring true for a certain group of younger generational journalists who feel that, "No, I have a certain ideology, I have certain opinions, and we're gonna get those in there

" It's like there are organizations you can work at that you can push that, but that's not what we do here, and certainly confronted that

And so what I saw, especially around 2016, 2017, is a younger group of journalists starting to come out of school wi- like, being like, "I believe this

" Like, we need to, like… Whether it's a domestic issue, whether it's a foreign issue

And that is a bit of the DNA that I think you see evolving in some of these organizations as a younger group comes in with a different, different goals

Do you feel like that's, like, that speaks to the sort of creator economy that, that we're seeing where people, it's like personality-driven content? Yeah, I, I certainly do

I'm sure you do as well

Um, the bar to have a voice is incredibly low- Right … which is incredibly good, but also really dangerous

Yeah

And I think that just allows people to, to pick up bad information and amplify it and, and run with it

Um, I, I think it's a huge, I think it's a huge problem

But I could tell you what, I mean, wh- when we hire people, um, we do look at their social media, um, output over some period of time

I mean, I can't say we spend, you know, weeks on it and i- but we do look at that, um, to make sure that they're not somebody that's going to… Again, my name's on the door, so I… And they have to, they're representing me and what my theory of the case of, of the company is

I wanna make sure that they are not, you know, spouting off on just every topic under the sun or any topic for that matter

The incentive structure today is not, you're not incentivized to provide all perspectives

You're not incentivized to just, like, go with the facts

You're not marked down when you screw something up, right? Right

Like, if you say something incendiary, that might get you 100,000 followers

Yep

Right? You, like, go with, like, a completely incorrect set of facts, that might gain you a huge following

You don't need to correct yourself

There's no standards for any of this stuff unless somebody's suing you for defamation

We oftentimes hurt our own growth because I'm like, "I'm not gonna take the 12-second selective bite of Trump or a Democrat

" Like, I'm gonna give you the whole minute so you see what was happening in the lead up and out of that

That hurts me in terms of shareability

Mm

Right? Because if I have one opinion, I don't wanna hear the other opinion in the bite, I just wanna hear my side

I want, like, something that's bad for my- the other side and good for my team

So the entire way we've built the ecosystem incentivizes, in some ways, bad information

How lucky are we? So let's, let's go back again to the- sentiment within the government, in politics, Capitol Hill, but also more broadly

Where are you the most worried as a Jewish person in terms of what you're seeing on the left and the right? Because there are both, there are splits on both sides domestically and in terms of, of relationship to Israel

Who worries you more? What worries me more is the, um, the people who are not willing to call it out, to be honest with you

Um, I was at a dinner the other night, a Chabad dinner, um, at which Ted Cruz was being honored

Um, and he gave a speech, really went hard at Tucker Carlson, which is not easy in today's Republican Party

But I will say, I mean… And, and by the way, let's, let's just take a step back here

Every politician has, like, three goals, right? Get power, keep power, increase power

That's it

Those- That's the modicum

That's the, kinda the, the checklist

So every decision that a politician makes is to service one of those or all three of those goals

So he has his own incentive

I'm not saying he doesn't believe that Tucker Carlson is scum

Um, he d- clearly does, but that explains why some other people are not willing to call him out

I mean, when you have people, uh, in the, um, the podcast sphere who are on both sides, I don't know if either side alarms me more, but we've just seen both the leadership of both parties, um, have just not been willing to call out… I mean, you s- We saw the vice president the other day who said, "I don't agree with everything Tucker Carlson says, but…" I mean, right? Like- Yeah That's, that's, that's alarming

That is really alarming to me

Definitely

Yeah, I mean, it's hard to rank

Like, uh, on this day I am more worried about the far left than the far right on this stuff

I mean, it's been fascinating to watch sort of, you know, there's this old theory of politics, the horseshoe theory of politics, that eventually, like, you go extreme on, uh, enough on one side, you're actually closer to the extreme on the other side

And, you know, there are a handful of things that they tend to agree on these days, where you have this, like, bizarre alliance of like, or praise of, like, Ilhan Omar and Marjorie Taylor Greene

And, you know, it's, it's fascinating to see this play out

What do they agree on? Israel and the Jews

And so, you know, how this all plays out as we have a rise of populism, like, there's currents happening and that we just need to watch politically, right? And oftentimes, you know, you look historically, and we, for obvious reasons, as Jews, need to have a very, uh, deep understanding of our history because as, uh, Twain says, uh, it doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes, right? Yeah

It's not gonna happen the same way, but we see the same trend line- Yeah … around the world going back several millennia

And so what do you have right now? We have record high income inequality

That's never worked out well for societies and/or the Jews

Um, so you have this rise of populism

You need people to blame for that

Then separately, um, as you, you know, look at where we are, like, you know, we haven't invested in infrastructure in this country, so it's like, well, what is our, you know, top, the country that gets the most amount of money, right? It's only 3 billion

It's technically a gift card

They buy US weapons

It's actually a jobs program across the country, but that's all irrelevant, right? So you start to see that, and you see, and you start to see the, the, you know, the political stump speeches of, you know, various Democrats, uh, including in Michigan and other places, uh, saying things like, "Well, if, you know, it wasn't for giving money to that country, you would have more healthcare or your schools would be better," et cetera

Yeah

You're seeing, like, a weaving of that narrative together

So, you know- Which by the way, is not true

Correct

Yeah, of course not

It, it is not true, uh, uh, that, like, a $3 billion, you know- Subsidy … subsidy that ends up getting spent at a weapons factory in Ohio is the reason why people in Michigan, like, you know, don't have enough money for a school in Detroit, right? Like, certifiably not true, but an easy thing to do

You don't need to fact-check it

As Jake just said, like, you got members of Congress going to ChatGPT

You know, like, the average person doesn't have time

They're just like, "Oh, that seems… That's a simple explanation for that

That's convenient

" Okay

And so, you know, it, it, it is, right, to be here concerning, the, to see this play out versus where we were even three years ago, six years ago, 10 years ago, et cetera

Who knew that, like, the '90s were gonna be, like, our peak period of time, right? Right

And that, like, I, the, the, the thing I took for granted, being able to go to temple or Jewish events and not have to think about security as a child or as a young person is not something my children now go through, right? Um, that's the first question we ask going, you know, to preschools in New York City, et cetera, is like, how much security are we talking about? What are the scenarios? What are… And, and that's the world we unfortunately live in

Mo, what are you, what are you learning about- sentiment out there in the world regarding Jews and Israel from social media, where you are so focused and have such an audience

You know, I think what gets lost in the shuffle, and what I find in my communities, is like there's a whole big group in the middle that has no i- like, what the hell is going on? Like, I wanna know more, right? Like, is it okay for me to criticize the Israeli government? I don't wanna be an antisemite, right? Yeah

Yeah

And there's some basic questions that I think we take for granted that like there's a lot of people who are like, "I wanna know more

I am genuinely curious, um, about this sort of thing

" Even in this world of like, you know, all the heat and the stuff that rises to the top when you go to your social media accounts, that like there's a lot of people just like y- living their life, right? Like- Yeah … it turns out that there's eight and a half billion people in the world, and there's a country with like 10 million people in it that gets like so much coverage, and people are just trying to live their life

They're told they have to have a p- opinion on stuff

Some of them don't

Some of them just say whatever

But like they generally wanna learn

There are a lot of people who wanna learn, who wanna know more about the issue, about Jews, et cetera

And so I think the more we can, as, like, experts, make ourselves experts on these issues, and approach people… not approach people, but be available to people as resources for information

Also, approach things from a place of curiosity, that I think sometimes knee-jerk, someone will say something they might have heard somewhere, and you're like, "Oh my God, you're an antis-", I just heard that s- like, like where did you hear that? Why do you think that? Like, I think, uh, there are times when for understandably, we get very defensive on things, when like if you approach sometimes, not always, some people with a place of curiosity, you might end up getting to a good place

I will say this, though, and this is what one thing that concerns me that I've been thinking about

Um, the, the, the- We're about to head into a midterm election

And actually, when, when this airs, it will be on election day

Wow

Yes

So tonight, people will be going to their ballot box

Um, and we have a, a really shaky economy that is underpinned by a whole host of factors that, um, are probably too complex or will take too long to talk about now, and we don't have to get into a discussion about that

But on top of that, we've been in now an eight or so month conflict with Iran that, um, Israel has been involved in, and there are, on top of the, just all of the antisemitism out there in the world, people are gonna be like, uh, the economy is crap because Trump bombed Iran at the behest of Israel

And that's scary to me

They're already saying that

Yeah

And, like, Trump is owned by Bibi, and he did this because of the Jews

And I mean, you hear this a lot

I mean, I, it's, it is true

Um, and it's, it's upsetting and scary

In the summer of 2008, I went on my Birthright trip to Israel, a free 10-day excursion to the Holy Land with a bunch of excited fellow college kids

You think it's gonna be a standard vacation, soaking in the Dead Sea, parties in Tel Aviv, and it was that

But what I didn't realize was how on top of having a great time, it could actually change your life

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Returning to America, it's staggering to realize how strong your bond to Israel suddenly is

One trip really does change everything

But these free trips can only stay free with your help

If my story speaks to you at all, please donate to Birthright Israel Foundation, because for the next generation, a trip to Israel means more than ever before

So please, head to onetrippchangeseverything

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Now, back to the show

Let's look at the future a little bit

Um, there's so many trends in digital news right now

I mean, it's just changing all the time

You have the scoop economy on social media

You have the deep dives and the podcasts

You got newsletters

Where do you see this industry heading? Like, what do you think are the trends developing where this can go in the next three, five years? So, you know, you watch the larger trend lines and, and you, you can go back a while and you see s- you know, over time like the bundling and the unbundling, and the bundling and the unbundling

What do you mean? Meaning like now we're in an unbundling phase where every single reporter's starting their own Substack and their own podcast and their own social page and their own YouTube page and everyone's going everywhere

Uh, some are being able to build real businesses that can pay the bills

Many cannot

Rebundling is like, okay, how do I put a group of these creators together under various umbrellas? And you see various examples of that

So, you know, I do think you live in a world now where you've seen, I mean, incredible success from Punchbowl and, and a whole bunch of digi- digital startups that are like, in some cases they'll pick a niche, a, a certain category, or they'll pick a certain platform and do very well on it

Um, and you as a consumer now you have to go to a lot of places to get all your information 'cause you have the podcast that you like and the Substack that you like and the TikTok page that you follow for this and the YouTube page that you follow for that, uh, which is at times incredibly inconvenient and at times getting expensive, right? With the streamers and- So many different subscriptions, yeah

So- This is how I consume news, from 10 different places

Right

So then the rebundling will happen, right? Who's gonna come and like bring all these people under, under one entity? You're not building ratings at The Today Show anymore

You're not building ratings on CNN anymore

You might get lucky with a big story, but over time that audience is going to other places

So these big companies, whether it's Comcast or Disney or Skydance, which is putting together Paramount and, and Warner Brothers, what are they doing and are- am I gonna buy Punchbowl? Am I gonna bring in Mo News? Am I gonna bring in v- you know, uh, Being Jewish like into some sort of larger new media space 'cause they have a connection with the audience? So hence the rebundling will happen over time here

The problem is these large n- news companies are not incentivized to build these lifeboats to a certain degree because they should be incentivized because they will save them

But like, if you look at any big, most of the big cable networks, they're like, "Well, we're not gonna do this digital thing

It's gonna cannibalize our ad revenue on linear, which is still profitable

" I think that news co- news outlets on television, or forget television, should just unbutton a little bit and find themselves just a like f- meet your audience where they are

I don't think they just want someone at a desk reading their, you know, reading news to them

That's my view

I mean, even what you do is like you're not in some studio like with a suit and tie and like a ton of makeup on your face, you know? Like it just, it just seems unnatural to me

Um, I do think the rebundling is going to happen

I think there's a huge risk for the people who are then bundled, that they become part of a large corporate overlord that takes away some of that special sauce that they had

Um, and it'll be interesting to see if people can keep that

And, and I'm super interested to see how consumers approach the world of like LLMs and ChatGPT and Claude and like, "Okay Claude, give me my morning news briefing

Here are the sources that I like

Put together the summary for me

" And then how does, how these businesses stay afloat

I mean, for many websites for years you lived off of Google traffic

That's collapsing right now

So if the story of the media was like they initially lost a lot of business when like Craigslist comes around, right? When Facebook comes around

Like you look at the digital evolution, and they haven't quite replaced that revenue, or they've been making good

Now Google's gonna collapse because when you search something on Google now, you're not going to the link, you know, for whatever news source, you're getting the AI answer- Yeah … that they've pulled

So how does that reality work, and then how does customization work when, uh, you know, we already live in a world where like we have, you know, different realities, and now everyone, like you and you and you and you guys are each gonna have your own news diet

"Oh, I didn't hear that," or, "This is, this is what ChatGPT, this is the daily summary they gave me today

" And we're still at very much the beginning of that

Say what you want about the newspaper, but it was great for that

For the op- for, for… You come across a story that you'd never seen before, right? You'd be turning the page and be like, "Oh, that's interesting

I didn't know there was this thing happening in Serbia

I'm kind of interested in that

" Yeah

The, uh, i- in terms of news discovery now, like you- you're only getting what you, exactly what… Like there's, uh, the greatness to that is you only get what you want, right? Right

The bad is like you don't read this story about women's volleyball in the newspaper today 'cause like you get The Athletic, and it's like here are the four teams that I like or the four sports that I like or whatever, and I'm only gonna get news about that

I'm not gonna discover this incredible profile about this player on a team that I've never seen before, you know? What about in terms of your individual companies? Like what are the things that you have felt, "Oh, I got to expand into this area or that area because it's the trend," and, and sort of what of those have you seen, "Oh wow, this is actually really something I enjoy and something the audience seems to enjoy"? And, and what do you see sort of developing that maybe we're at the beginning of now that you're, you know, you didn't think you would be doing but maybe three years from now is something that's a, a core part of your business? I actually have been thinking a lot about how AI is gonna impact all of us

That's where I want it to go anyways

Yes

We don't use AI for anything journalistic, you know, anything content creating, um, at all

No headlines, no editing

We still have people doing these things

I think there's gonna be a massive premium on really good reporters, um, like 1000x on really good reporters

Until an, uh, LLM could go into the capital and talk to Mike Johnson every day like I do, I think it's gonna be very difficult for an LLM to replace me

Yes, I do think AI's gonna be terribly disruptive

I do think it's gonna be a huge thing for, you know, fire on Main Street, you know, two people died, this guy arrested for arson

Like those kinds of stories AI will be great at creating

Stock market up, here are the five winners, here are the five losers

Great for AI

Um, explaining Mike Johnson's, uh, incentives when he's trying to keep the government open and going to talk to members of Congress about how they feel about Mike Johnson, not a great fit for AI

What about using AI in terms of fact-checking and real or not real? I mean, I see stuff on AI that's demonstrably false, on LLMs that are demonstrably false

And, and remember, a lot of people in our business, um, other media companies have licensed their content to a variety of AI companies

So that's the facts that it's based on

So, you know, those are not imperfect

Uh, I don't know if you have thoughts about that

Yeah

We try to use, uh, AI, or I try to use AI sometimes as a bias check on myself So we'll have, like, AI, can you read this caption from the perspective of Caroline Leavitt at the White House or as a Democrat? Like, what, uh, quibbles would you have with the story or the perspective or the emphasis? But when you look at the business the way it is, is we're talking about larger things, you know, the days of having hundreds of reporters and copy editors, like, those days are going by the wayside

And I would just say one more thing, Jonah, on this, which is the media business tried to outrun the internet, and was unsuccessful, like, in the early 2000s

And, you know, people paid, you know, people paid the price with their jobs, and people were fired, and newspapers closed because they didn't monetize their copy when they could on the internet, and they gave it away for free, and then they were like, "Actually, this is not free anymore

" We can't outrun AI

So, like, AI will d- definitely replace the function of some journalists

I, I just think it's not as dire as people think

So as I mentioned earlier, this episode will be coming out on midterm election day here in the States

I would love to hear what you think, uh, or how, how large of a role you think the, the Israel issue is going to play in the way that people are voting, and then I'm gonna put you on the spot and ask you guys to make predictions

Well, look at the time

Thank you

No

I think it makes a difference in some, in some districts

I don't think it's everywhere

I don't think any, um, election is gonna turn on, on Israel

I don't

Even, like, the Michigan Senate race? I, I don't think so

No

I think, I think Democrats have massive structural advantages in, in Michigan, and we've seen that time and time again as Republicans have poured unending sums of money into that

Um, listen, if you're… I don't bet on politics

Punchbowl News does not allow reporters to bet or wager on Kalshi or any other platform on politics

Um, listen, you have to bet today that Democrats, absent some insane intervening event between, you know, now and election day, or tonight, as it were, um, Democrats are likely to take the House

Based on decades of history, the party in power always loses seats in the House except for two instances, 1998 and 2002, Clinton's impeachment and right after 9/11

The Senate's much more complicated, but if you're a Senate Democrat today, I mean, Chuck Schumer told us a- a year ago he, there was a path for them to win the Senate, and we all thought he was crazy

So I mean, Democrats have a good chance

I mean, they could win Iowa, Alaska, Texas, Ohio

They're gonna win North Carolina

They're gonna win Georgia

So- The president's victory in 2024 was predicated on, like, three big things, right? I'm gonna make things cheaper

I'm gonna take care of the immigration issue

No stupid wars, right? So there are people who are now looking at that a year and a half later and saying, "Things are more expensive

Um, I was, m- maybe I was with you on certain immigration aspects, but ICE went too far

" Right? Even hear that from some Republicans

A lot of Republicans say that

Right

Yep

And then stupid war, right, as far as, uh, majority of Americans are concerned

And so by the way, a war that has then contributed to issue one, which is affordability

Right

So when you look at, like you ask Americans, like top issues, certainly for a certain portion of Americans, right, I don't even know what the latest numbers are, like, you know, Israel comes up somewhere

Uh, and Israel's certainly a background to that

But as far as like, what am I voting on? I'm voting on like, how much did it cost me to fill my gas? What is my winter heating temperature gonna be on? Um, how much are things at the grocery store right now, right? Like, those are the core issues

And then even like other issues have risen to the top, right? Like this summer we were worried about AI taking our jobs

Starting around the first week of September, worried about AI killing us, right? That was like a thing in September

Now we're worried about data centers

Data centers, et cetera

Yeah

I mean, these are all issues

Like look at the political ads playing out in your states, and that gives you a good gauge for what is the most important issue

There are very few playing out on, you know, Middle East

Which I hope will give some people comfort to, to realize that most people aren't, ain't thinking about us

They're thinking about their, their gas bill

Yeah

We're, we're thinking about us- Right … because we have to

Of course

But most people aren't

Yeah

In a good way

Um, all right fellas, we're gonna wrap things up here as I like to do with a little lightning round

Jake, favorite Jewish holiday? Uh, Passover That's said with almost a question mark again

Yeah, I had to think for a second

Probably Rosh Hashanah, actually

Okay

Wh- why the switch and why Rosh Hashanah? Because I actually realized I really hate matzah and… You're just figuring that out now? Well, I just- Yeah

Um, and, uh, I don't know, I like the renewal

I like the sense of renewal

Beautiful

Mo? I, I mean, I don't mean to be boring here, but I'm also gonna go with Rosh Hashanah as well

It's a great holiday

We have, uh, if you ever had the Sephardic, the Moroccan traditions, we also have our own version of, like, the Seder plate, um, the Sephards do for Rosh Hashanah, and various blessings we do over, like, pomegranate seeds and sesame seeds, et cetera

So, um, always enjoy that aspect of the holiday

What about Mimouna? Mimouna

Mimouna

Mimouna

Uh, so Mimouna takes us back to Passover, and that would actually be, uh, the best part of Passover, the end of Passover

The Moroccans have a tradition called Mimouna, which is, like, a huge party we throw at the end of Passover

Where you eat mufleta

Among many things

Amo- among many things

Yes

Uh, if you have not been to a Mimouna party, I highly suggest you try to find one

You're invited to Moshe's house

Yeah

Yeah, I, I, have to, I have to inform my parents that, uh- They'll take you on a tour of- For a hundred and… Yeah, they now live in Fort Worth, Texas

Everybody come for the, uh, the holiday in April

Yeah

Jake, DC's best bagel

You know, we just had Call Your Mother this morning

Um, I'm not a hater on DC bagels

Like, I think Bethesda Bagels is fine

I think Call Your Mother's fine

So, like, I'm very happy with the DC bagel situation

I, I, that's an unpopular view

Mo, New York City

I'm going with my convenience option

We moved to the Upper East Side recently, and so I'm a Tal Bagels guy right now

I don't know that one

No

I- What's your favorite New York bagel? I don't know, I don't really eat carbs Or is this- Stand like a true LA guy

I don't know

Right? Although LA is now, we're exploding with amazing bagels

We now have Papa bagels, Pops bagels, Courage bagels, Layla bagels

They have a Papa bagel here in DC now

Yeah, we have, like, really, really good- A Chicken Guy … bagels

All different styles

Yeah, Connecticut has it too

Yeah

Jake, DC's best deli? God, we have no delis

I hate to tell you

Oh, bummer

Mo, New York best deli

What's your pick? Had a cold last week and got Second Avenue delivery

That's a good one

Carnegie just reopened in Midtown

I'm not a huge Carnegie

I like Katz's

Oh, Katz's, I mean- I'm a, I'm a Katz pastrami dude

Yeah

If you could interview any Jewish person alive, who would it be? That's a good question

Any Jewish person alive right now? There's only, like, 16 million to pick from, so

Yeah

I want to… Well, you know what? I want to spend some time with the plumber who took out the pilot

Mm

Mm

What's his name? Yaniv, uh, Hayun

First of all, is he really a plumber? Survey says- No

Jake doesn't think so

But yeah, if you ask me today, I, I mean, it might be irrelevant when this podcast comes out, but that guy- No, we'll never, we'll never forget the plumber

Yeah, the plumber

Yeah

And I, I've interviewed Netanyahu, but I find- Right … endlessly fascinating

Um, especially coming up on this election where, um, I, I… His campaign tactics fascinate me

I mean, now he's basically saying, "If they woke me up on October 7th earlier, I would've been able to stop it," which is, um, it's a ma- it's an amazing claim, but he's endlessly fascinating to me

Breaking news or deep analysis? Breaking news

News, news, news

There is nothing more exciting and thrilling than breaking news

Uh, interesting

You don't know where the story's gonna go

N- I didn't, I didn't necessarily think that was gonna be the answer

I'm, I'm- 100%

Oh, it's so interesting

100%

Democrat or Republican? Now I really have to go

That's, that's… You don't have to answer

Um, what, what… We've talked about a lot of negative things, uh, happening and, and downward trends

What gives you hope for our country's future? What are some positive trends that you can point to? You know, I… This is a, th- this is gonna seem like a cop-out, but it's truly not

I really do think that we have a very elastic country, meaning we bounce back incredibly quickly

If you don't… Kevin McCarthy used to say to me about polls, "If you don't like the weather today, just, like, go outside tomorrow, it'll be better

" You know? Um, Kevin McCarthy, the former speaker

Uh, and I think that's, that's also true with America

I mean, people don't dwell on this enough, and maybe it's just 'cause it's my world

When Trump left office in 20- uh, when Joe Biden won in, in 2020, like, there was a whole spate of legislating on Capitol Hill

It was almost like a, a, you know, like a vice had been taken off

And every president- Leads to a president that is almost the exact opposite of the previous one

I mean, H

W

led to Bill Clinton to Bush to Obama

I mean, it's just, it's amazing to see

So I really do think that I, I am not one that believes that the world is coming to an end, that our country's coming to an end

I think people need to, like, drink decaf and maybe turn off television, close TikTok for a moment

Um, I do think that there's a lot of things that we have to be worried about as a country, but I really do think we live in a pretty elastic country

Y- you know, it's, this is where, like, history is so important, right? Like, we survived a Civil War, we survived a Great Depression

Like, we've been through a lot of shit in this country

We've been through, even in our, you know, in our lives if you're relatively young, whether it's 9/11 or it's the financial collapse or it's COVID, and think about how things felt in that, like, exact moment, right? Think about how you felt in September 2008 or in March 2020 And so, you know, I think that, you know, for all of its flaws, this country has been on a pretty incredible ride for 250 years

And, uh, you know, for all the issues and the things we would love to fix about the Constitution and the way this country works, I, you know, I think elastic's the right word

Like, we're, we, we have this bounce back ability that, um, you know, Chur- I think they attribute this to Winston Churchill, that, like, America always does the right thing after it does the wrong thing first, right? We have a lot to be proud of in this country, and we've accomplished a lot, and we've overcome, and we have our demons

Uh, and, you know, we'll have those demons forever, and we're gonna make mistakes forever

It's just the nature of who we are

But, like, we, uh, are incredibly lucky also as Jews to be minorities in this country versus many other countries, and you're watching some of the trend lines play out even to the north of us in Canada and some other places

Yeah

And one other thing I d- I feel good about is we're hyper-engaged right now

I mean, sometimes for the wrong… You know, unfortunately because of some of the negative things that have occurred, we're hyper-engaged, and that also means that, like, we're learning more about ourselves, uh, and we're hyper-engaged in politics and- We as Jews? As Jews

Yeah

I mean, as society, but- Yeah, yeah … particularly as Jews

I was talking to the former CIA director, Michael Morell, recently, and he was talking about meetings he used to have in China, where in China he'd have his meetings, uh, you know, US intelligence leader with the Chinese intelligence leader, and they would talk about like, "Oh, that was a good year or a bad year in America

" And the Chinese would be like, "That was a good century or a bad century, or a good millennia and a bad millennia

" We as Jews have millennia behind us

Post-World War II, we had, you know, a upward trajectory and a good few decades

But now we see sort of where trend lines are, and we have to be very cognizant of what's going on, but we're hyper-aware and hyper-connected, and we do have a homeland, right? And so, you know, ultimately there is, a- as much as, you know, we've presented some negativity here tonight, and we have to be engaged on that stuff, we have a lot going for us

Amen

Amen

Yeah

And the last question that I ask of all my guests, challah, rip or slice? Rip

Although my son re- really wanted to slice it this week and said it would taste better, but I told him he's so wrong

Doesn't affect the flavor so much

You, you rip, and as a, uh, Moroccans, you throw it across the Shabbat table at other people

Ladies and gentlemen, Jake Sherman and Moshe Juan Uno

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This has been Being Jewish with Jonah Platt

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